Q&A: How Mike Rowe rescued Michigan State gymnastics from scandal and tragedy to excellence

EAST LANSING, Mich. – Michigan State gymnastics coach Mike Rowe has piloted – in some ways quietly, in some ways loudly – what I feel is one of the greatest stories in American sports. 

Eight years after the Larry Nassar assault tragedies became a national news story and stunned the Michigan State University community, the Spartan women’s gymnastics program was left somewhere in the background, in emotional rubble.  

Rowe was an assistant coach at Michigan State at the time. He was elevated to interim head coach, replacing Kathie Klages, who was fired in the wake of the scandal.

“We were wondering if the program might be discontinued,” Rowe told me during a 45-minute interview, Thursday afternoon at Breslin Center.

Instead, Rowe earned the trust of then-Athletic Director Mark Hollis to become the permanent head coach in the summer of 2017. Rowe’s energetic, effervescent optimism has combined with an indomitable group of young women in repairing and renewing the program into a championship culture. The quest has been handed down from survivors, to next-level achievers, to today’s Spartans, who rank No. 6 in the nation, have won two straight Big Ten Championships, and have their eyes set on national hardware. 

This team drew a packed house at Jenison Field House last March for the Big Ten Championships. On Friday, for the first time, the Spartans will compete at the Breslin Center, for a dual meet against No. 20 Michigan (6 p.m., BTN+). 

The gray bleachers at Breslin have been rolled back to make room for gymnastics equipment. The arena’s video boards and information ribbons are going to be adorned with the names and faces of this amazingly-talented set of Spartan athletes, including two-time All-American Skyla Schulte (Sr., Bolingbrook, Ill.); 2024 first-team All-Big Ten selection Gabby Stephen (Sr., Elgin, Ill.); 2024 regular season All-American Nikki Smith (Jr., West Bloomfield); rising all-around threat Olivia Zsarmani (Jr., Statesville, N.C.); prized incoming freshman Amy Doyle (Centerton, Ark.) and several others. 

The crowd is expected to approach or exceed 10,000. Spectators will include Spartan supporters of all types, including long-time Michigan State gymnastics fans, and young gymnasts from around the state who are eager to watch state-of-the-art competition in their favorite sport and might be setting foot on the MSU campus for the first time. 

Rowe gives credit to his assistant coaches, his gymnasts, and administrators for fueling the rise. But in actuality, Rowe – a Lowell, Mich. native who spent one year as a walk-on gymnast at Western Michigan University and then became a member of the Spartan cheer team before graduating from Michigan State in 1985 – has rescued the program. He has made an unlikely trek to become one of the top coaches in the sport, and made Michigan State a destination for some of the nation’s top gymnasts.

It’s been an amazing comeback, one that Michigan State fans might not be fully aware of. But it’s a story that needs to be told, and a climb that needs to be documented. 

During interviews with gymnasts on Thursday, I didn’t ask the current Spartans about the Nassar tragedy. They weren’t here when those crimes took place. They are focused on trying to bring their best performances to the biggest regular season stage the sport has witnessed on this campus, Friday night. I gave them their space.

But I approached Rowe with one basic, all-encompassing question: How did you do this? 

From there, more follow-up questions flowed. The result is what I thought was a fascinating Q&A. 

The football fans who come to SpartanMag might not know much about gymnastics, but you need to know this story. So we’ve carved out the time and space to tell it. We only briefly touched on the Nassar situation, and delved into how Rowe was able to keep a team together, and recruit in the wake of that scandal. The answers, in some ways, were as surprising as his unlikely rise to become two-time Big Ten Coach of the Year. 

Jim Comparoni: You had been an assistant coach at Michigan State for three years when the Nassar tragedy came to the forefront. That’s when you were elevated to head coach?
Mike Rowe: We were immediately elevated to interim head coach. It happened around Valentine’s Day, right in the middle of the season. Really didn’t have a clue what we were going to do. Not a lot of guidance in that kind of thing, other than a strong desire and passion to make things better, and improve upon the situation in an unprecedented situation, not knowing what the future was going to hold, not knowing if the program was going to be cut. 

We didn’t know. We just thought, ‘Let’s turn this around and have fun.’ With a team, at that point, half to two-thirds of them were survivors, and weren’t showing up to practice, and were dealing with lawyers and this kind of stuff.

So we were like (clap), ‘Whoever shows up today, let’s see what we can do!’ This is in-season. Trying to put a team together that’s still going to compete, with a lot of emotions on high, and changing. It was a roller coaster. 

We knew that we were just interim until the end of the season and they were going to do a national search. So we had to apply for our positions. And once again, fortunately, it worked out. 

JC: Who hired you at that time?
MR: Mark Hollis and Shelley Appelbaum, and Richard Bader was our administrator. 

JC: What was your pitch?
MR: I was fortunate enough that in my last couple of years as an assistant coach at Pitt, I did my master’s in coaching and athletic administration. And I did my thesis, in 2012, on how it’s all about the student-athlete, and teaching them core values, finding out more about them, getting to know them, befriending them, getting to know them at a better level, and communication, and teaching integrity and trust and respect. And just knowing them more than you would ever think you would know a student-athlete. You’re not just a coach, you’re not just coaching them, you’re kind of parenting them in a way. And having their parents entrust in you that they are dropping them off for four years and you’re going to take care of them. 

Do we do that in its entirety? I don’t think so. But I think these kids truly believe that we are their No. 1 resource when it comes to knowing we will be there for them in all regards. I think our student-athletes truly believe that we care that much about them that we will go to the end of the line for them and take care of them.

JC: And you were able to recruit, despite all of the stigma and negative publicity?
MR: That’s the most amazing thing, because we had commitments going into 2018. We were done recruiting for the next year. This was February of 2017. We were already looking at 2019s. And we didn’t lose one commitment in that year. We held onto these kids. The parents were like, ‘You know, even with all that going on, we still think you’re the same people, as long as they’re keeping you intact as the coach …’ And at that point, we didn’t know. 

We were interim and we could only hope that things would play out. Keeping communication was key, and we didn’t lose one commitment.

JC: When were you officially hired as the permanent head coach?
MR: June of that summer of 2017.

JC: And who were some of the key people that helped keep things together, whether it be key recruits that you held onto, or team captains or assistant coaches?
MR: There were Olympic sport coaches that had us by the hand and were guiding us, because we really didn’t know what we were doing. Knowing how to make changes, we really relied on each other, when it came to coming up with concrete decisions. 

Helen (Knull) from field hockey, and Jacquie Joseph from softball, who is now our sport administrator, just amazing, always there to answer questions. (Soccer coach) Damon Rensing, (baseball coach) Jake Boss, (volleyball coach) Cathy George – those people were there for us for any questions. That was our first introduction to the true Spartan family. 

At that time, the 1855 building wasn’t here. Administration was all still in Jenison. We were all up on the third floor. So Mark Hollis and everybody was down in the second floor. You didn’t have to go far to see anybody. It was all in the same building. What’s ironic now is we are all separated now and you have to seek people out and make appointments. It’s definitely been an evolution.

JC: That’s something that Michigan State had better make sure they don’t lose.
MR: Yes, that tight-knit aspect, the accessibility, because it really is important. And with so many sports and so many coaches and assistant coaches coming and going, it is important to say, ‘Hey, we’re here for you. Kristen, the new volleyball coach, welcome back! Thrilled for you. Let us know if you need any help.’ And just break that ice. 

We couldn’t make it over to her announcement press conference because we were at practice, so I had to step down and talk to her ahead of time just to welcome her back and everything. I just feel like you have to keep that going because one of my true beliefs is I’m not a talker, I’m a walker. I want these kids to be the same. I don’t want them to talk the talk. It’s show me, show me, show these people. Walk the walk. You’ve elevated this program and gotten us to a place, we need to continue to show them. We have to show them that we’re getting better.

JC: Who were some of the others who helped bridge the gap to where you are now?
MR: (In 2022), Lea Mitchell (from Boynton Beach, Fla.) and Ashley Hofelich (from Novi, Mich.), they were the kids during that transition time, we had basically lost a season to Covid, and they were like, ‘We’re sick of this. We’re sick of being mediocre. What are we going to do about it?’ And they just started working as much as they could, under the conditions of Covid, and reevaluated what was important to the program to make us be successful – and that was doing a lot of self work. 

It wasn’t about their talent and their work ethic. That was always there. But when they changed internally and got that drive, ‘We don’t want to mediocre anymore. We want to be the Cinderella story; we don’t want to be the underdog.’ And that year, they did it. 2022. They went from 56th to 9th. 

JC: Prior to becoming an assistant coach at Michigan State, you were an assistant for nine years at the University of Pittsburgh. And you were the recruiting coordinator? How did you get into the recruiting aspect of college gymnastics?
MR: (Laughing) There was no book. (Current Pitt coach) Debbie Yohman was my boss at the time, and so fortunate that she gave me that opportunity to do that. Basically, throw me to the wolves, and you have to go out and do it.

I had been on the Junior Olympic scene, coaching at numerous gyms. I had been at (Lansing-based) Twistars for nine years before I went out to Pitt. Region Five was one of the stronger regions in the country.

JC: What is Region Five?
MR: Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Kentucky. So we would go to J.O. Nationals every year and Region Five would clean up. They always won. Twistars was the state champion every year. So I coached Jordyn Wieber back in the day and Kami Moore, and we had a couple of Spartans who came from the Twistars. 

In the spring of 2005, my husband got an E.R. nurse opportunity in Pittsburgh. I didn’t know what I was going to do. I just gave my notice, and said we’re moving to Pittsburgh.

Arturo and I had met in New York City when I was dancing, and Pittsburgh kind of reminded me of a mini New York City. They had a great theater district, and the rivers and the bridges, and lots of great restaurants, and lots of things to do, the sports teams. We loved the city. 

You either work for the hospital or one of the colleges in Pittsburgh. Everybody does. I said, ‘You know what? The University of Pittsburgh has a women’s gymnastics team. I’m going to go up and introduce myself to the head coach, and tell her I do choreography if they need choreography.’ I really hadn’t thought of any more than that.

I didn’t make an appointment. One day I just kind of drove up there. I go walking in the gym, and they had a new facility, and I was like, ‘Wow, this is what a college gym should look like.’ And she was standing back in the corner, so I just walked in and we had never officially met, and she was like, ‘Yeah, I know you. I’ve heard about you.’

There weren’t any real quality clubs in the area to coach at, and I didn’t want to settle down for just being a warm body. I wanted to make a difference and coach good gymnastics. 

I said we had just moved here, and I do choreography, and if you ever need anything … and within like five minutes she’s like, ‘Have you ever considered coaching college?’

I was like, ‘Not really. I guess if there was an opportunity, I would do some research and find out because I have the qualifications and I definitely have references and recommendations.’ When I put my mind to it, I do it. 

So I was like, ‘Why do you ask?’

And she says, ‘Well, my first assistant, the recruiting coordinator, just gave his notice, today.’ She said the position hasn’t been posted, but if you’re interested, fill out an application. And within three weeks I found out that I had the job.

JC: She was aware of you because of your coaching in youth gymnastics?
MR: Yes, she had been recruiting at our gym, at Twistars. So I had seen her before. She was best friends with Kathie Klages, who was the coach here at Michigan State before me. We had all been friends for a long time. Kathie was one of my references for the job at Pitt.

JC: So how did you end up back at Michigan State?
MR: This job opened up (assistant coach and recruiting coordinator for Klages at Michigan State). I was like ‘This is a sign.’ I had missed 12 to 15 years of my nieces and nephews my parents. It was a lateral move as far as financially and that kind of stuff. My husband could work anywhere, and actually got a pay bump moving here. We were moving out of the city and into a smaller city. That was taking a chance.

I called Kathie when I heard the position was available and said, ‘What do you think? Would you consider me as a candidate? We’re friends, but would you be fine with that?’ And she said, ‘Yes, you should definitely fill it out. I don’t know if you would be my first choice but I don’t know who is applying.’ She was very candid. And lo and behold, here I am, and everything else just happened like it happened. 

I’ve been blessed in many ways, of things just falling out of the sky and landing in my lap. And Kathie comes to all of our home meets now.

JC: Once you got the job and got it going, what allowed you to take it to the next level and become a Top 20 program, then a Top 15 program and now a Top 10 program? You say you didn’t know what you were doing at one point, but you obviously did, and still do.
MR: Basically it was getting the team to buy into the core values of our process from the beginning. We would have little educational things, not team bonding necessarily, but I remember saying one day, ‘It’s not about your gymnastics. You all bring amazing things to the table, and we can clean up your gymnastics, and they can be great. But that’s not a guarantee that the program is going to be successful. The only way that we’re going to be successful is if we start from inside here (pointing to his heart) and everybody on this team works on our relationships. Works on caring about each other.’

I don’t say you have to be glued at the hips and be together 24/7 for the entire four years, because people come and go, we lose seniors and gain freshmen. But the people coming in expect to get what we’re selling when they come on official visits. 

I don’t want to just talk about how much our team cares about each other, I want them to say, ‘Oh my God, I’m here because I saw you guys on TV and you can just see that you are a tight-knit family, you are a Spartan family.’ We want to show it, walk the walk. That’s the whole basis, the whole foundation of why we are where we are. These kids truly enjoy what they’re doing and they love spending time with each other. They will go the mile, go the distance for each other. They are their own best resources. They are the best salespeople for our program. When we bring recruits in, we try to spend minimal time with them as coaches. Go with the team, and get to know them. 

We’re selective in who we bring out for official visits. We brought 14 in for official visits this year, and that’s not a lot. And there were four- and five-star recruits, and that’s new to us, too. That doesn’t mean we’re going to get them all. We’re in some tough competition for a lot of them, but hearing from them, when they see us at Regionals, when they see us at Big Tens, when they see us on BTN, they are seeing that this team really cares about each other. And who wouldn’t want to be a part of that?

JC: Skyla Schulte, your Second-Team All-American from Bolingbrook, Ill., she was a five-star recruit, right?
MR: Yes, Skyla, Nikki Smith (a junior from West Bloomfield), and Amy Doyle (a freshman from Centerton, Ark.). We have three on the team right now.

JC: So after you kept your initial commitments during the shadow of the tragedy, did you still have to battle the stigma?
MR: Oh yeah. And the toughest part about that is for a couple of years I almost didn’t want to go out to gyms recruiting because all that they wanted to do is talk about the scandal?

JC: Parents and coaches?
MR: Coaches. You’re out there to see their kids, and you’re like, ‘Let me see this kid. Is she interested in us?’ But every time I walk in a gym, they’re like, ‘Yeah, I saw this on the news. I’m so sorry about that. What do you think is going on?’ And you just want to pound your head against a concrete wall. 

So thank God we’re past that. Because there was a time when we still got kids to campus, and still got kids to come, but it wasn’t maybe the five-star recruits and four-stars. We’ve evolved since then.

JC: How did you push it through, because you seemed to get enough talent as it turned out.
MR: I think there was some luck. I think our team sells the program. And you get people here and the university sells itself. We introduce them to our academic support staff, half of our administration, and Alan Haller if he’s around, and Izzo if he’s around. We introduce them to key people that have put Michigan State on the map. Every school has that, but when you have the caring aspect … my team makes a recruiting visit all about the individual that is being recruited, not about us. If you demonstrate to them during that 48-hour visit how much you care about them, they’re going to remember that, because they are going to go out and compare us to four other schools and they’re going to go, ‘Wow, I really felt good about that visit to Michigan State.’

That played a big part in it. Some recruiting classes are stronger than others so you have to kind of wait it out and see what falls through the cracks. Olivia Zsarmani had a great J.O. career, and during her junior year, her recruiting year, she had an ankle injury that took her out, surgery and all of that kind of stuff. So she was kind of under the radar for a little bit. 

We kept our eyes on her, we kept in contact with her. We saw her at J.O.s – Junior Olympics National Championships – and we saw a lot of promise in that kid. Watching her improve and come back from her injury with success and we were like, ‘Yeah, this is one that we need to go after.’ Using her as an example, staying in touch with her during that period is benefitting us now.

JC: In any sport, evaluation and player development is key. You and your staff must be great at that.
MR: Getting better. I wouldn’t say great. Getting better and being more comfortable with it because right now we’re competing against the Oklahomas, the Floridas, the Utahs, the Cals. It’s tough. Everybody has the nice, shiny pretty things, and the leos and the success. So there’s not a lot of difference in the material aspects of what a school can provide you – obviously a solid major and a solid education, which Michigan State does in all respects. I think it comes down to, once again, them getting to know us, getting to know our team. We’re an open book, there’s no smoke and mirrors.

JC: So now the scandal is way back in the past and these new recruits love the gymnasts that you have?
MR: Yes.

JC: You said ‘leos,’ what are leos? 
MR: Leotards (laughing). 

JC: Gotcha. I don’t know these things.
MR: $300 to $500 pieces of apparel that they wear. Expensive.

JC: I mentioned to you before that I covered Michigan State women’s gymnastics meets way back when I was student, at The State News, in the late 1980s, and for the Lansing State Journal in the early 1990s, and Michigan State women’s gymnastics was a good product back then, and the Spartans were pretty good, and the show was great, but it was rare for a college gymnast back then to be at the world class level. Kelly Garrison was an exception back in 1988. She had competed at Oklahoma, and made the USA Olympic team at the age of 21, which was kind of old, back then. She was an exception back then. But these days, there’s Leanne Wong at Florida, whom you competed against last week, who was an alternate for the 2020 and 2024 Olympic teams, and won a gold at the 2022 World Championships for Team USA; and in February you will go against Jordan Chiles of UCLA who won a gold medal at the Olympics last summer. My point is college gymnastics was good in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s, but now it seems to be tipping its toes into being world class, which seems pretty exciting. Is this a fairly recent thing, or am I just noticing it?
MR: Yes. And there was no crossing over (into the world class category) until NIL came into it.

JC: It used to be 16-years-old was kind of a prime age for gymnastics, and college years were kind of at a downturn, but it doesn’t seem that way anymore, with some of these college gymnasts maintaining a world class level.
MR: They’re making money now. Dollars are driving some of those athletes to come back and stay in college gymnastics, and the notoriety that they’re getting. It’s amazing to have a Jordan Chiles of UCLA on your team. 

JC: So when you see a tumbling pass here at Breslin Center on Friday night with these girls, some of that will be world class, right?
MR: You’re totally right. So you’ll see world class level skills like the double lays, the double lay dismounts, sometimes double back dismounts, but with the way college gymnastics is scored, they don’t need all of those things if they can get a 10.0 start value with other things. So there is some watering down of beam routines and bar routines because of the scoring system, because they can get to the 10.0 value and minimize potential deductions, so they are not going to go for eight, 10 or 12 skills when they can get to an 10.0 with eight skills. It’s called working the code a little bit and staying away from overkill.

JC: But the talent is there, and better than ever.
MR: Yes. There are some kids who are coming to college, they are not only on scholarship, but they are getting tens of thousands of dollars on top of that, with NIL. 

JC: How do you handle competing with that?
MR: It’s made the playing field not even close to being equal. So it is hard to recruit against that because we are talking about what we can give you as far as a full scholarship, but when they’re getting cash on top of that, that’s hard to recruit against.

JC: And there are some programs that offer that?
MR: Oh yeah. 

JC: A lot of programs?
MR: I would say less than a dozen. But when you’re trying to fight to stay in the Top 10 and you’re recruiting against programs that are basically scholarshipping an entire 20-person roster, whereas I can fund 14 scholarships out of a 20. I have six that aren’t getting any money.

JC: But those other programs can fund a full 20?
MR: We are sitting in a position now where we have great depth on each event, and we are not paying these kids that are our depth. They are not on full scholarships. Some of these one- and two-event kids that are helping us out are not getting money for it. It’s going to be harder and harder to recruit now, knowing that we are up against that.

JC: How did you get those five star recruits, like Nikki Smith?
MR: We had some luck along the way. Nikki was the sister of Nyah Smith, who was here for four years and walked on with us. And they just had great success and are tighter than two sisters could ever be. Nyah was here, and Nikki came on a visit and it was just a natural evolution. Nikki did look at some other places and we were fortunate enough to get her.

Skyla decided to come to Michigan State out of the womb, I think. Her parents were both Spartans. Her dad, Pete Schulte, was a wrestler here. She grew up with Michigan State in her blood. She was here for football games, basketball games, everything, since she was a child. She told us she was coming here. She wanted to commit in the seventh grade. And here she is. 

Skyla’s recruiting class included Gabby Stephen (Sr., Elgin, Ill.). Gabby is just as strong, great leadership qualities, great talent, great personality. The fact that we got that one-two punch in that year alone really set this program heading in the right direction.

And Amy Doyle is a five-star freshman out of Arkansas.

JC: So you’re starting to get some of those five stars because of the family thing?
MR: Definitely.

JC: And you get fired up when you’re coaching those uneven bars and one of your girls sticks a great landing. You’re known for some really demonstrative celebrations.
MR: Definitely! I love it. It’s just so exciting for me to see it happen. When they actually do it, their confidence builds. Now it’s like, ‘Let’s do it and do it with flair. Let’s show it off.’ Whoever is in here competing against them, that doesn’t matter to us. Let’s add a little cockiness to it, and it works.

JC: And you’re part of that. They feed off your celebrations and they like to get you fired up.
MR: They love to fire me up, and I love to fire them up, and we joke around and it’s all just part of the standard that keeps us going, and keeps every day new and fresh and exciting. When they walk into the gym, they know they are in for a good time, and let’s just see how it unfolds, and see how we can get better at the same time.

JC: In my opinion, what you’re doing is one of the most amazing sports stories in the country, although the nation hasn’t woken up to it yet.
MR: Oh, thank you. I’m fortunate to have a great staff that supports us and has ideals that keeps me driven. We’re always thinking and if that didn’t work, let’s try something else. So it’s not just me. I am extremely fortunate to have support services and resources that help us get there. Administration is a huge part of that, supporting what we do and helping us get to the next level.

JC: Some of your assistants focus on coaching the floor, the vault and the beam. You coach floor choreography and uneven bars. Where did you gain that expertise?
MR: From Twistars.

JC: A little bit of high bar background, too, probably from when you competed?
MR: Yes, messing around on the high bar. I was self-taught. I didn’t start competing in gymnastics until my sophomore year of high school at Lowell High School. We didn’t have a men’s team. We had a women’s team and I competed with the women’s team. They had tumbling, trampoline, floor, and vault. Those were my four events. Ionia High School had a men’s program but my dad was an administrator at Lowell, both of my parents worked there, my sister and I went there, I wasn’t going to bus to Ionia for a men’s gymnastics team. I was enjoying what I was doing. So I did that for three years and qualified for states but I couldn’t go to states because they had men’s states, but I hadn’t qualified through that. I was a diver before I was a gymnast. Then I went into club gymnastics and then walked onto Western Michigan men’s gymnastics for one year.

And my assistant coaches. Nicole Jones. She was on the team in 2010, and she hasn’t left. She worked her way up from student coach, to assistant coach, to associate head coach. She coaches balance beam and is my recruiting coordinator. And Devin Wright, who we got (in 2022) from Cincinnati Gymnastics Academy. She applied for a volunteer coaching spot, and after her interview Nicole and I talked about it and said she needs to be paid, she is going to be our second assistant. 

JC: From the time you were elevated to become the interim coach, and you were wondering if the program might be discontinued, and now it’s been built up to this – two straight Big Ten Championships, a packed house for the Big Ten Championships last year at Jenison Fied House – and now you’re having a home meet at Breslin Center, expecting another big crowd …
MR: I could have never predicted it, that’s for sure. Could never have imagined. Have always hoped, and thought and dreamed. 

It’s all for them. They have done all the hard work. They put it in. They have believed in us and believed in our process to know all of these things – the rings, the acknowledgements, the Big Ten Championship, the Sweet 16 appearances – it worked. They have believed us and our messages have worked.

JC: And this year, you want to get past that Sweet 16.
MH: Oh sheesh (eyes rolling). Our mantra this year is, ‘It’s time.’ Because it is. And they all know it.

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